So You Got Arrested

The Race for Bexar County DA: A Conversation with Shannon Locke

• BRCK Criminal Defense Attorneys

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0:00 | 35:00

Criminal defense attorneys BRCK host an exciting discussion with Shannon Locke, a board-certified criminal defense attorney and candidate for Bexar County District Attorney. The conversation breaks down the messy nature of the Texas justice system, focusing on Bexar County's current challenges and the changes Locke proposes.

Locke, who has experience as both a prosecutor and a defense attorney in San Antonio, explains the importance of having a board-certified expert leading the DA's office, and how his deep understanding of the law is crucial for handling serious cases and maintaining public trust.

The discussion also dives into:

  • Why the DA's office should stop asking, "Can we win this case?" and start asking, "What is the problem here?"
  • The critical need for a collaborative relationship between the DA's office and law enforcement (like SAPD) through open communication and strategy.
  • The issue of case backlog and the urgent need to address problems like domestic violence and exploitative relationships on the front end, rather than waiting years for trials.
  • The importance of empowering Assistant DAs with discretion and supporting their mental health to create a less toxic, more effective environment.

Locke also shares his background, including his time in Arizona, his move to San Antonio to work under Susan Reed, and his unique perspective as the only bilingual (Spanish-speaking) candidate for the office.

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Show Setup And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00

The podcast that tells you what really happens after an arrest. Hosted by brick criminal defense attorneys. Please talk to the people who've lived it, worked in it, and been traced by it. Whether you're facing charges or just want to understand your rights, your options, and the smart moves that could change everything, we've got your back.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm very excited, Scott. Uh we have a Bear County election coming up for district attorney. And we have one of our candidates here, Mr. Shannon Locke. I was excited to have Shannon on. He's got a heck of a social media following. And uh I see him on Twitter from time to time and TikTok talking to people and answering their questions. And so we're really lucky to have him on today.

SPEAKER_03

He's a great guy. I've known him forever. I've dealt with him on both sides, and uh he's always very intelligent and easy to talk to.

Shannon Locke’s Background And Credentials

SPEAKER_02

So, Shannon, I know you know my partner Scott. Uh, you and I hadn't really met until today. So I I'm interested in kind of your background. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for having me on. Uh, I'm uh a board certified criminal defense attorney. Uh, I've been practicing for about 20 years. Uh, I started out in Arizona for a little while. Uh I went to the University of Arizona and got my law license first in Arizona in about 2002. And uh Arizona was a little strange back then because they they had no reciprocity. So you got to do lots of really big cases early on in your career. Uh so those three years that I spent in Arizona, I was trying murder cases. I was in the gang unit. Uh I was doing some uh some really hard-hitting uh heavy prosecutorial work. And then I moved over to uh San Antonio, uh, where I had a job at the uh at the Susan Reed District Attorney's Office uh for a couple of years, and then went to uh work with uh Ben C Fuentes at uh C Fuentes and Locke. We formed a law firm and we were uh representing all all kinds of folks, uh criminal defense uh boutique law firm, uh also police officers, a lot of police officers who represented those those folks too.

SPEAKER_02

So you went from being uh a prosecutor to uh being a defense attorney.

SPEAKER_01

So you've seen both sides of it. I have, I have seen both sides, uh, and I've represented thousands of people, and uh, I handle lots of cases as a prosecutor, also. So I I think I have a deep understanding of both sides of the uh of the equation. So you you mentioned earlier that you were board certified. Yes. Uh can you kind of explain to everybody what that means? Sure. So a board certified lawyer, uh approximately one percent of all the lawyers in in Texas, and when you get your law license, you can you can practice any kind of law that you want, and any kind of lawyer can take any kind of case. So if uh some poor soul comes into my office and I decide to take an oil and gas case, then then I can do that. I'm allowed to legally do that, even though you could argue about whether or not I should. And I wouldn't take an oil and gas case, but uh you can take an oil and gas case if you want to. But uh what the Texas Bar does is they say some people can be specialists, and if you are board certified, you can tell people that you're an expert in a in a certain kind of law.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. Okay, yeah. And so, insofar as you're aware, are you the only board certified candidate for district attorney?

Why Board Certification Matters For A DA

SPEAKER_01

As as as the field currently stands, I am the only board certified uh candidate for to be the next district attorney. And I think that's important because you have to have uh, you know, there there is there is a a fundamental decision at the end of the day, the buck stops with the district attorney. You have to be the one who makes the decision. You have to call a ball or a strike, you have to dismiss the case, you have to go to trial. Not for every case, okay? There needs to be a lot of delegation. Uh, but the really important cases where the community has been harmed, you have to know as a DA, you have to have an independent ability to analyze the case and say, look, uh, have we answered all the questions here? Uh, what's going to be the result? Because when the community is harmed uh in that kind of case, uh and somebody is found not guilty, or not all of the evidence comes out, or evidence gets suppressed for bad reasons, uh, then the community really suffers. And what happens is you have a loss of trust and a loss of faith in the district attorney's office, and that's extraordinarily dangerous. So uh it is important to have somebody who not only uh is a good manager, but also knows the law. Because if you don't have somebody who knows the law, uh what you have is is you have the the possibility that these very serious cases will get bungled and then people will stop believing in the process. And that's that's a huge uh issue. It's a huge worry. And really, you know, as I as I'm looking at the field, it had a lot to do with my decision to run uh because I think it's an extraordinarily important office.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and and that board certification, I mean, there are requirements that you have to meet for that, right? You have to have tried so many felony cases to verdict. You you have to, there's an exam that's involved, and so it's not done appellate work too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you have to have done appellate work also, right?

SPEAKER_02

So it's not just a matter of like paying a fee and you get this award. I mean, you have to put in the work in order to get that achievement. Yes, yeah, exactly. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_01

So so where are you from? So I'm from Baltimore, Maryland originally. Okay, yeah, I'm from Baltimore, Maryland, and I'm kind of uh I'm a little bit so like the wire, the home of the wire.

SPEAKER_03

That's what kind of interested in persecution. There you go.

SPEAKER_01

Uh so uh so I'm from Baltimore originally, and um I I also spent a little bit of time in Mexico. I've kind of been all over. Uh yeah. And so I speak Spanish. Oh, are you bilingual? I am, yeah. That's awesome. Uh yeah, so uh so I get to I represent a lot of a lot of Spanish speaking clients, uh, and I am Spanish speaking, so uh for sure. Uh so anyway, and then I went to college out in Minnesota and then uh went to law school in Arizona. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02

And so what we've never had an elected DA who speaks Spanish, and that's uh that's a good asset here in Bear County. Oh it's a great asset to practice here in Bear County, obviously. So so what brought you to San Antonio?

SPEAKER_01

So I I got a job at the DA's office uh with uh with Judge Reed. And uh, you know, so I had uh my uh my first wife was from here, and so we uh we came out and and uh you know decided to to move out to San Antonio.

SPEAKER_02

And uh you were at the Bear County DA's office under uh Susan Reed. Um were you in a specific area? How did that work?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I started off, you know, it was one of those really as a career, it was strange because I tried a murder case in Arizona, and the next week I was in county court two as a second chair. Uh just because you had a very strict rule that you had to have, you know, you had you couldn't get promoted unless you had the right uh number of years in that office. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And so uh and so for everybody out there, so county courts only handle misdemeanors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So you've won your murder. Uh here's uh misdemeanor theft, somebody shoplifted from Henry Marijuana, zero to two kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so that was an adjustment. And uh eventually I I I practiced a little bit in front of Judge Murray uh in county court. Yeah, yeah, and then uh and then I moved up to the white-collar crime section. So uh I got to do that, and uh, and that was uh that was that's what that was also interesting, and I think uh allowed me to get hooked in with uh with Ben C Pointis because he was uh he was handling a lot of police officer cases, and that's what the white collar crime section was doing.

Rethinking The Prosecutor’s Question

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So while you were at the DA's office, were there ever moments where you felt like there was something about the process or there was something about the way cases were handled that could be improved upon?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Uh so I think that what we are missing, uh, and and what we have been missing for so long is that we have an adversarial system, and that that's fine, right? That that that that's that's what it's supposed to be. But prosecutors, okay, can take a step back from that. Uh and what we should be asking, and we're asking the wrong questions throughout the criminal justice system, okay. We're asking, can we win this case? Okay, that's that's that's the wrong question. And the reason that's the wrong question is it takes about two years to answer that question. Yeah. So if you have a serious case and you're saying, Well, can I win this? Right, by the time you know that and impose punishment, right? There's been two years of uh uh of change, right? Uh and so what we have to start doing is start asking the question, and it's a better question, is what is the problem here? Okay, what is the what is the fundamental issue that's bringing these people into the DA's office, into the criminal justice system, and how can we address that problem? You can ask that problem and get an answer to that problem within seven, 30 days. Okay, you should be able to answer that question fairly quickly. So if you start asking that question instead, uh it may be that the the whether whether or not you can win the case doesn't really matter at the end of it because you try to solve the problem on the front end. So, for instance, the domestic violence cases, you have all of these issues, but nobody's asking, is this a is this an abusive relationship? Okay, if it's an abusive relationship, how do we dismantle it? Okay. Uh a protective order, right, that you can get established and agreed to uh within you know a very short amount of time, right? Uh, that can be a lot more effective and save somebody. Whereas if you're waiting to get the person put on deferred adjudication in two years, right?

SPEAKER_03

Or it takes them six months to file the case right now. And the current current DJ's office, when you get arrested for a domestic violence case, it's six months before the case gets filed in court.

Domestic Violence: Problem First, Case Second

SPEAKER_01

Right. And so nobody's nobody's asking those questions. And so those problems are just festering, and that's a huge public safety issue. So instead of just having those problems, you know, fester and become worse. What I want to do is I want to start asking that question. Okay, is this a problem? Right? Is this is this an abusive relationship? Is is somebody being exploited here? I want to start training the police to ask and tell the prosecutors, okay, why are you in this relationship? Right. I don't have a driver's license. He's my ride to work, right? Uh these are these are problems that we can start getting services and people to start responding and solving that problem so that we can actually start helping those folks in those in those really abusive, exploitive relationships, get them out of that situation, and then at the end of the day, uh worry about whether or not we win the case or not.

SPEAKER_03

Now, I do have to push back a little bit because I'm I've spent a lot of my time doing balance cases. Yes, a lot of those people, I've witnesses I've talked to complainants, they are in an abusive relationship and they have no intention of leaving that person. Yes, and that's and they want to drop the charges, and some of them want to drop the charges because they're being intimidated, but some of them drop the charges just because they they still love the guy. Right. And so I always told my people don't be telling them how to live their lives because then they're gonna they're gonna shut you down.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And a lot of this is earning trust. Right. Right, but you don't earn trust by ignoring people, correct? And you can, you know, if you ignore somebody, all you're teaching them is that they don't matter. And that's the worst lesson that they could possibly take. Uh and so what what you know you you you have to try, right? And and sometimes you get you get pushback, and sometimes you know they're not gonna trust you. And it's just never gonna happen. But at least at least then you've tried. So I would like to like do you think that the district attorney's office, as it now stands, has a metric to find out how how how quickly do they contact the complaining witness after the event?

SPEAKER_03

So I I my sense is that they have advocates in the intake units that reach out, right? But I I know that for whatever reason, the in there's only two intake prosecutors handling all those things to file them. And so I know the the DAs don't get involved till later. Right. But I've never worked under Joe's administration, so it's a little bit foreign to me. And it's it's hard to know. It's hard to know. It's hard to know. I know they keep talking about the the amount of cases they say they're backlogged is horrifying to me. It is because looking at whoever the next DA is, that's not gonna be fixed in a year. It's gonna take like two years at least. And some and and I don't think what's happening is they're making an addition on the front end to get rid of the crappy cases.

Backlogs, Intake, And Faster Filters

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah, that's that's also true. And so uh I've looked at other jurisdictions. One of the jurisdictions that I've looked at is Harris County. Okay. Uh they have a 24-7, they have a prosecutor, 24-7, uh, who works with the police to decide whether or not to file charges. And that's a great model. And it's uh it's it's so how many times I know that you all listen to body cams. Uh I spend a lot of my time listening to body cams, and I hear police officers discussing what charges to file.

SPEAKER_02

Right. They get together, they kind of have that huddle like, hey, what should we do here? Yeah, what's appropriate, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_03

They get their sergeant on the phone. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Never an assistant DA.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Have you ever heard I've never heard an assistant DA?

SPEAKER_02

Oddly enough, the only time I've ever seen that is in a small jurisdiction where they call the local county attorney to figure out, hey, what should we do here?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And so so I think that uh an assistant district attorney being part of the conversation, okay, also makes you part of the team. Okay. So there is unfortunately right now a divide between law enforcement and uh and and the and and the district attorney's office. And it's almost it's almost like the district attorney's office is adversarial against the criminal defense attorneys and adversarial against law enforcement. What do you think the basis of that is when you say that there's a divide? What you know, I think it's because they don't communicate. I I think that they don't communicate until there's times to offer a plea bargain or or that sort of thing. And that's a that's a tremendous gap in communication. So if you can, at the front end, right? So the prosecutor's like, well, you know, we decided to charge this case, we decided to charge this case, law enforcement and the and the assistant district attorney, uh, then I think the finger pointing starts to go away. Okay, because you're you're not like, well, you brought this case in. Okay, well, you signed the information. Well, you didn't do the investigation. Uh, and there's finger pointing that's not productive. What you could have is you could have an assistant district attorney who's actually involved in it. Uh, and and that I think would help with that adversarial relationship.

24/7 Charging Model And Police Coordination

SPEAKER_02

Well, and and I think it would also help those situations, because I certainly know that this exists where maybe the case isn't that great, and then the prosecution wants to get rid of it, but then you have an officer who may be upset who doesn't understand why you know maybe that case wasn't good enough.

SPEAKER_03

You know, to well, generally with SAPD, it's the opposite, though, because SAPD is told if you go out on a domestic violence case, you pretty much need to make an arrest. Right. And so that's part of the issue, is there's always been this push back in there's never been a healthy relationship between the DA's office and SAPD. Uh it's different. Like, so when I was a prosecutor in Medina County, when I talked to Castroville PD or Hondo PD, they're like, We have what do you need? Yeah. Here at SAPD, it was like, we do it the way we want, we don't care. Okay. So that's not gonna be easy to fix.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's not. It's gonna, but it's gonna take, you know, it takes, I think, a fr a a little bit of fresh blood to do it. And uh, I think that uh I think that's that's one of the one of the benefits that I'll have uh is that look, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell them, listen, I want this to be a collaborative relationship. Yeah. Uh and you know, a lot of times if you make a domestic violence arrest and the prosecutor dismisses the case, it doesn't mean the arrest was a bad idea. No. Okay, so you have to separate people and you can't turn your back on somebody uh just because it may not have been uh approvable assault. Uh you can't just keep them together and and wait for approvable assault to happen. Uh that makes no public safety sense. At the same time, when you're the prosecutor and filtering out these cases, dismissing the case may be the best decision for everybody. And so there's no reason to say, well, that was your fault. Actually, no, everybody was doing their job, and you know, you should encourage people to do that. Like, yes, you have to make the arrest, yes, you have to make the dismissal.

SPEAKER_03

And uh so I'm interested because this sounds like a really good idea, but it um in the implementation of it. So you're saying you're saying that you understand that they still have to make the arrest, yes, but it's because I'm thinking the earlier you dismiss that case, the less backlog you have. Right. So, what what are you thinking in terms of okay, you got to make the arrest officer, but but we don't think we can go forward in the case. So what are we doing like a week later? Well, what's the process?

Bridging The DA–Law Enforcement Divide

SPEAKER_01

So, yeah, so the the process would be this you have to answer the question is this an abusive or an exploitive relationship? Okay, and sometimes you can't get that answer now, right? Sometimes it's just but if you can't get that answer right now, the question that they're asking is can we win? And I think they're also asking, is this a cooperative witness? Yeah, I hate that term. That that is that is it is and it is the worst possible question to be asked.

SPEAKER_03

And and and because here's the thing. I I I obviously I represent guys who are accused of assaulting their wives, and the wife is calling the DA back and saying, I don't want to pursue charges, and they're saying she's uncooperative. I'm like, well, she's not uncooperative because she's calling you back. Right, yeah. That's not uncooperative. That just means she doesn't want to pursue the charges. I I quibble with the idea of you're in the DA's office as it currently sits, you are either cooperative or uncooperative. There's no gray.

SPEAKER_01

And there's no gray. And and and at the same time, you know, there's no conversation, right? There so there's what we have is a lack of strategy, we have a lack of conversation, lack of communication. Everybody's just interested in putting you into that category or out of that category, uh, and how that statistic's gonna look. I think that's that that is actually a really toxic environment. And it increases uh all of the public safety problems that domestic violence. So what you should say is, look, you know, this is this is a red flag, right? So we have to investigate. We have to know, is this an abusive relationship? What is it? Uh some jurisdictions have you take a class, okay? You know, if you look, uh, we'll get this dismissed and we'll get it dismissed in short order. But okay, let's talk about uh, you know, some of these things. Let's, you know, you can give a class and you can say, listen, uh, if you just because we've dismissed this case, it hasn't gone away, right? If this occurs again, it's a felony, right? Okay, because it could be continuous, it could be a continuous family violence.

SPEAKER_02

So in Bear County, like I know over in the 81st south of San Antonio, Wilson, Atuscosa, um, Carnes, and what have you, they have a class that's called the RISE class. And I they may have put that together. And it's actually a class for the complainants, the victims of domestic violence who have to take a course that teaches them how not to be stuck in the cycle of violence or resources that are available to them before uh they will get rid of a case. Like if you have, I guess what we call a non-cooperative witness, uh, before they'll get rid of it, that person is taking one of those courses. Do they have that here in Bear County?

SPEAKER_01

I've never seen anything like that. And it's, you know, so so I think that I think that we're asking all the wrong questions. I think if we start asking the right questions, I think that the backlog, uh, I think we'll begin to be able to work through it in a productive way, uh, that will actually make us a lot safer. Uh, because I think that uh once we start uh identifying these abusive and exploitive relationships, once we start identifying those and really putting resources into taking those cases to trial, doing everything that we can to uh to dismantle those relationships uh and target those and sort of just educate and uh process the others, I think you'll see uh I think you'll see a tremendous uh uh reduction in the amount of repeat domestic violence. And that's really that has to be the concern.

Strategy: Prioritize Truly Dangerous Offenders

SPEAKER_02

Well, and and you have an interesting perspective in that you you currently work as a criminal defense attorney. Yeah. And so you kind of bring uh perspective from both sides, you know, in into this uh your your candidacy. How has uh your experience as a criminal defense attorney kind of affected your your outlook on the criminal justice system?

Empowering ADAs And Building Detective Ties

SPEAKER_01

So I think that I think that it has really revealed to me that we're a asking the wrong questions. Uh I really think that that that has really uh that that's what I I feel uh I have learned over these these 20 years, uh, where you know what we need to do I think is is start to formulate these solutions. Okay. Uh but also uh What surprises me is that when you're looking at a docket, okay, uh the criminal defense attorney, the criminal defense bar right now is the one that runs essentially the docket by choosing whether or not uh certain cases plead or whatever it is. What prosecutors need to do and what the prosecutors need to really focus on is they need to sit sit there and say, okay, these are the people that need to be incapacitated. These are the people that we really need to focus on. All right. The rest uh are really gonna get deferred, probation. Uh, and it's it's not gonna be a a super big secret to do that. Right. Right, yeah. But the behavioral issues that we need to adjust, right? We're looking to target them with probation or deferred adjudication, give them appropriate programs so that they can address that, but then really look at these five cases that are on the docket. Okay, we're putting all of our our resources, our experienced prosecutors are there, uh developing the cases, making sure that evidence isn't left untested or whatever it is, and uh really focus on those folks. I don't think that there's that docket strategy uh that's being employed right now uh at all. Uh and so uh what we would train people to do, and what we would say, listen, you know, even in misdemeanor courts, uh, there are people like burglary of a vehicle is a misdemeanor.

SPEAKER_03

That that is I used to felony when I started practice. I was shocked when they knocked it down to a misdemeanor.

SPEAKER_01

It's uh kind of mind-boggling. Very rarely do we go backwards and reduce offenses in level. But it's uh it's a misdemeanor. And so that that's that's a little bit uh, but if you have a misdemeanor that's a burglary of a vehicle, well, that's somebody you should pay attention to.

SPEAKER_03

Uh they tend to they tend to be doing multiplitudes of crimes that vehicle burglary.

SPEAKER_01

And they're not they're also planning it. It's not like they've committed this crime by accident. You can you can drink too much and drive and be surprised that you're intoxicated. That happens. But if you're burglarizing vehicles, you've made a choice. Um, and and that needs to be treated differently than somebody who's just got a behavioral issue that that needs to be looked at.

SPEAKER_03

One thing I would say is in tying in to get a better relationship with SAPD, what what I think should be said to them sometimes is hey, SAPD, some of these cases you file with a stink, okay? Yeah, but that you know who on the street are the really bad characters. Right. If you would just tell us this guy's a really bad dude, we can get together and like this might be a weak case, but this is worth going forward on. Okay. Yeah. But but but don't tell us every single one of your cases needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Let's let's be have common sense here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there has to be filtering and there has to be there has to be conversation that occurs. And I think that that conversation needs to happen between SAPD and more than one person. Yeah. And so that's the other issue that I see at the district attorney's office that as it currently stands, is that I don't know that that very many people have that kind of trust from the elected district attorney. And so what you really want to do is you want to make sure that lots of people have discretion, okay, not too many people, but lots of people have discretion so that they're feeling like they can make these decisions and talk to SAPD like that. I guarantee you that if a detective calls a a third chair or a second chair prosecutor and says, I'm really worried about this person, I guarantee you that they will they will not say, okay, uh, let me put them on the trial docket, let me figure out how to work up the case. They'll probably say, Okay, well, I need to talk to my supervisor about that. Yes, and that conversation will or will not will not occur. Uh, and that's and that person, as my understanding of how the DA's office currently works, that person would also probably have to talk to their supervisor. And by the time they get back to the third chair prosecutor to tell the detective, it's probably too late.

SPEAKER_03

So you're talking about empowering the the DAs to feel comfortable establishing good relationships with the different different detectives.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely. The different detectives, you know, what you know, what I what I would try to do is I'd say, look, you know, uh, we've got lots of people at the DA's office, and everybody should be on alert for these different things. Okay. Uh, and so that will help us filter, uh, filter the cases in a more intelligent way. And at the end of the day, I think all of us will be more safe uh if we do that.

SPEAKER_02

How did how did it work when you were there, Scott, in terms of you know, these relationships with the detectives?

Culture Change: Discretion, Trust, And Mentorship

SPEAKER_03

I so is it so so the interesting thing for a while I did murder intake at the DA's office. And so every murder that wasn't a baby murder or spousal murder came through me. So what happened is I got established a really good relationship with the the sergeant of homicide, and they actually ended up getting giving me a card. I could go right over to SAPD every time anytime I wanted and just walk back there. And I would and they were establishing a night murder unit. So I would go over there at night and I would just sit down with the detectives. Yeah. And then I used to get invited to their parties and stuff. And so I I established a rapport, but but nobody like that's this is like initiative, right?

SPEAKER_02

That wasn't like the policy of the office, that was you on your own.

SPEAKER_03

But I think if you if you encourage DAs, hey, you need to develop relationships. If you're gonna be somebody who likes who was gonna handle a bunch of property crimes, because property crimes are just are not in centrally located at the substations, yeah, you need to go to the substation once in a while and introduce yourself and say hello. Yeah, that those relationships are very important. But the only way you're gonna get those relationships is if they get out from behind the desk of the DA's office and go out to places, but also to be trusted, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So so I I I'll I will tell you uh that if an ADA goes to a substation right now, uh they're probably not sure that they're gonna be able to say the right thing. Yeah, right. And so, you know, you go out there and you're Scott Simpson saying whatever, right? And and you're told, well, Scott, you you shouldn't have said that. You shouldn't have said the detective, you shouldn't have told the detective that instead of saying, Hey, Scott, that's fantastic that you have relationships with these folks. Thank goodness you're communicating freely. That's awesome, right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. And so, you know, that that that's what I'd encourage my ADAs. So, what I'm gonna try to do, and and this is this is also really important, is that it is such a toxic environment right now. Uh, and so what I'm gonna try to do is I'm gonna have these ADAs and I'm gonna tell them, look, your emotional and mental health are my top priority. I want to find out what you really enjoy doing. Okay, what do you why are you an assistant district attorney? I want to I want to get 20 years and I want to retire. Okay, well, you know, so let's let's put you, you know, let's put you someplace where you don't, you know.

SPEAKER_03

You can't mess things up.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Yeah, but I'm gonna ask them, I'm gonna say, you know, what it what would really lights your fire. I want to try cases, you know.

SPEAKER_03

I but you have people like I have a passion for child victim cases. Right, yeah. You have other people like I don't want to try those type of cases, exactly, right.

SPEAKER_01

And so you you start matching them up with what their passions are, and then and then and then you also uh encourage them, right? Because you know, hanging out with detectives and doing that sort of thing, it's kind of cool, you know. It's not it's not like you know, that's why you became a prosecutor, uh, because that is the stuff that's on the TV.

SPEAKER_03

And once you establish those relationships, now the detectives can will give you every you you know what's like instead of like I think something's missing here, let me file a notice over to the sergeant. Yeah, I just call up and say, Hey, hey, Detective Hines, he's a good friend of mine. Like, what's going on with this? And I'll just tell you.

Transparency, Media, And Public Trust

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so then it's not a gotcha, right? Right. And and that's what that's what I know that police hate that uh is when you say, look, you know, oh, you didn't fingerprint this. Haha, you know, we had to dismiss it, right? That's that's a terrible, that's a terrible and so the toxicity spreads. Right. Okay, right.

SPEAKER_03

They're afraid to make mistakes to the DA's office, right? Okay, and so so there has to be a situation where I always uh when I see everybody being micromanaged, like you're paying these people for their judgment, right? Let them use it. Yeah, okay. So, but and that means they're gonna make bad judgments once in a while. Yeah, and as long as they talk to you, they they can't be afraid of being fired because they mess something up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And and and that's what I would do. I like so somebody makes a mistake, I would bring them in and I'd say, so why did you dismiss this case? And if the answer is, you know, I wanted to do a favor, or you know, I that that's not a legitimate reason, right? But if they tell me, listen, uh, I thought the problem, I thought I he they had done marriage counseling, and I have a letter from the counselor, and if he gets a conviction, uh, he loses his top secret clearance, and then the kids don't get fed, right? Uh, okay, you know, that that that's not that's not that's not even a disciplinary issue. But I need to know and you need to be able to tell me freely, right?

SPEAKER_03

And you can't intelligently tell that your boss why you did something, we probably don't need you.

SPEAKER_01

Right. That's that's a problem. But if you're using your intelligence and and and rationale, then yeah, that that makes sense. And I'm gonna encourage you to do that. And even if it turns out badly, because some of those cases will, uh, then I will still uh, you know, I'll again encourage you to use your discretion because that's really important.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, I I was always taught uh I grew up in a family of attorneys, and one of the key lessons that I was taught was that every lawyer makes mistakes. The best lawyers just don't make the same mistake twice, right? It's the practice of law. We're we're, you know, we're gonna exercise bad judgment from time to time, we're gonna learn our lessons, but you you can't just fire somebody, you know, maybe over a one-time mistake that they made.

SPEAKER_03

I think the one cardinal sin that all DA, I've worked for four different DAs. I don't think the elected should ever find something out through a call from the media. They should know from their prosecutors, hey, this high profile thing just happened today. Although sometimes it's hard to know what is going to be high profile.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes it sort of happens.

SPEAKER_03

Right. But I I I know that that's like the the one golden rule is let your elected find uh hear it from you before they get the call from WLA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah. So uh Scott, uh, we're uh up against the time. It went by so fast. Like I had a list of questions.

SPEAKER_03

But there may be some things that you still want to get out. We can go a little bit over. Yeah, so you get to say everything you wanted to say.

Social Media, Community Outreach, And Voting

SPEAKER_01

Well, I I think that I'm really excited. Uh I think that we can bring a fresh perspective to the district attorney's office. I think that fresh perspective is going to do a lot uh to uh to to really protect San Antonio uh from what's happening now. And so right now we have a district attorney's office that has lost the faith, I think, of every important uh constituency. Uh I don't think law enforcement uh feels and and and uh what's happening is as you go around, as I go around San Antonio and Bear County, people are like, well, uh they don't care about me. Okay. Uh and it's true when I go to the Pride Center, it's true when I go to uh talk to police officers, it's true when I talk to people in Stone Oak, West Side, East Side, South Side, everybody saying the same thing. So there's been this tremendous loss of faith in the DA's office. So how do you restore that? That's that's gonna be my mission. One, you need to realize that that's what's happened.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh, that's number one. Number two, once we realize that we've lost the faith of the of the public, of everybody, uh, then what we have to do is we have to start explaining how we're gonna act strategically. So we didn't talk about my social media.

SPEAKER_02

I I was gonna say, I mean, I wanted you to mention that and tell people how to find you because uh what's interesting to me is on your social media, you interact with everybody, you answer questions, you you know, you you you talk about these ideas that you have. So I want you to please tell everyone how they can find you.

SPEAKER_01

You can find me on TikTok, uh Shannon Lock, Shannon Lock Five. I guess there are four other Shannon Lock. And do you want to spell it just uh Yes, it's S-H-A-N-N-O-N-L-O-C-K-E five, the number five. Okay. And then uh and then also on YouTube. You can find me on YouTube also. Uh do you have a campaign website that uh everybody can find? It is uh l-o-c-k-e f o-r d a. Okay. Lock for D A. And uh yeah, you can look me up there, but but the social media stuff is important, and what I'm gonna do is uh to restore the faith in the office, uh, explain my strategies, okay, and then transparently execute those strategies. Uh, and so I I was on K Sat the other day, and I told them, look, I'm gonna try to have as many news conferences. So my goal ultimately is to have a news conference and nobody show up because they already know what's going on. Yeah, they're tired of hearing from me. Uh, I think the DA's office now is is is so reclusive uh that that it is causing this mistrust. They're into the yeah, they very are, they very much are. And uh I I understand it. It is a hard job, and it is not one where you're gonna be popular.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I've told Scott. You know, the one thing about being a district attorney is you're you're gonna make somebody unhappy. You know, it's it can't you can't you can't make everybody happy, you can't make that your goal because it's just not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01

Right, it isn't. And and so you have to combat that with transparency and say, listen, I and I think people will understand if you say, Listen, I'm not dismissing this case because we're lazy or because you know we dropped the ball, but this is why. Okay, this is you know, putting this this person through a trial to get a not guilty uh is is gonna just make the trauma worse. And so I think the community would understand that. Whereas if you just dismiss the case and don't explain it, uh, I think they then they think, well, they probably did a favor or something like that. Yeah, they feel shut out of the process, right? I I had an experience where I had a number of murder cases dismissed, and then I got it made the news, and uh and the comments were like, Oh, he must have gotten and the case needed to be dismissed, right? And the prosecutor basically said we don't talk about pending charges. Okay. Uh and and so they that was their explanation, and I kept expecting them to come forward and say, Look, you know, this case that you had the least culpable person in a multi-count, multi-defendant indictment. It made more sense to dismiss his case than tank all of the others. Uh, they could have easily explained that, but instead they said nothing, and all the conspiracy theories came out. Uh, and that's uh that is the tremendous danger of being insular in this office. And uh and that's where you lose the trust. That's where you lose the trust. And so you and and trust in the office is important because if people don't trust you, they don't call. And if they don't call, you don't know that there's a problem, and then that's how people end up getting very badly hurt. And so uh the transparency, uh, everybody thinks that oh, social media, oh, you know, somebody's on TikTok, that that's kind of silly. But no, there's a lot going on on social media, and it is where people are. So you have to be able to communicate that way uh to get people to have faith in you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, we appreciate you coming out. I would encourage all of you if you know um to go to Mr. Locke's website, follow him on TikTok, learn more about his positions. Uh, we appreciate your time today. Well, sure thing. I really appreciate being here.

SPEAKER_03

And I will say the DA's office race in Bear County is probably the most important thing that affects your lives as citizens. Do your research and get out and vote, please. Yes, definitely. Please. Thank you all.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for listening to Don't You Got Arrested. If you found this podcast helpful, share it with someone who needs to hear it. For more legal insights and real talk from the front lines of the Texas justice system. Follow us and subscribe. And remember, work criminal defense has your back. For more information, visit us at brckadefense.com.