So You Got Arrested

Inside a Texas Courtroom: What Judges Wish You Knew with Judge Christina "Tina" Hartmann

• BRCK Criminal Defense Attorneys

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This episode features a conversation with Judge Tina Hartman, making her the podcast's first sitting judge guest. The discussion centers on the expectations and unspoken rules judges wish defendants and attendees knew when coming to court. 

Key Topics Discussed:

  • Appropriate Court Attire (00:55): Judge Hartman stresses the need to dress respectfully for the institution. The hosts emphatically state: "Don't ever wear shorts to court ever." They recommend checking the court's dress code, avoiding clothes advertising illegal substances or alcohol (especially for related charges), and assure that accommodations can be made for those who cannot afford appropriate attire.
  • Court Arrival Time (03:19): Defendants should be present before the court's start time (typically 9 AM) to ensure they are marked as present during the docket call. Showing up late or failing to check in can lead to a warrant being issued.
  • Interacting with the Judge (04:47): A defendant rarely has to speak to the judge, especially during a first appearance. The judge primarily needs to know about legal representation. Attendees are warned against approaching the judge or staff to talk about the case, as the judge must remain neutral.
  • Writing to the Judge (06:45): Writing letters directly to the judge is not helpful; the judge will likely not read it (to maintain neutrality), but the prosecutor will receive a copy, potentially exposing more facts about the case.
  • Case Resets and Presence (07:41): Cases are often reset for negotiation or conferral, but the defendant is still expected to attend all scheduled court dates as it's typically a bond condition and they have the right to be present at most hearings.
  • Plea Bargains (08:40): The judge does not know about plea bargain offers unless the defendant is accepting an agreed plea. They remain detached from negotiations to stay neutral.
  • Legal Advice (09:34): Court staff, clerks, and the judge cannot give legal advice—that is the role of an attorney.
  • Addressing the Court (10:59): The safest and most common way to address a judge is "Your Honor," though "Yes, Judge" or "Yes, Ma'am/Sir" may also be acceptable in some courts, provided it shows respect.
  • Bringing Family/Support (13:12): Generally, courtrooms are open and public, allowing family members to attend, provided there is seating and they are well-behaved. A critical exception is if the defendant has bond conditions prohibiting contact with a person who attempts to attend.
  • Leaving Court (14:31): Attendees are not free to leave until their case is done for the day and the court or their attorney has excused them.
  • Absence/Lateness (15:29): If running late or unable to attend, immediately contact your lawyer or the court coordinator/clerk. Do not assume you can go home or come back the next day, as this will likely result in a warrant.
  • Interacting with Inmates in Court (17:27): Family members cannot pass notes, money, or items to loved ones who are in custody in the courtroom. Deputies are in charge of security and generally do not allow physical contact (like hugs), as the inmate is still in the custody of the Sheriff's Department.
  • The Judge's Role in Dismissal (22:22): The judge does not have the authority to unilaterally dismiss a case. A Motion to Dismiss must be filed by the State (prosecution), as it is the State's case.
  • Pet Peeve (27:32): Judge Hartman's biggest pet peeve is when people are rude to each other, the court, or their attorneys. She expects everyone to be treated with respect.

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SPEAKER_00:

Whether you're facing charges or just want to understand your rights, your options, and the smart moves that could change everything, we've got your back.

SPEAKER_03:

So we're here with Judge Tina Hartman. And uh Tina, you are our first sitting judge. We had Joey Contreras on previously, who was a former district court judge, but you're our first sitting judge. So one of the things that I wanted to talk about today was you know, things that your judge might want you to know or uh wish that you knew when you're attending court. Okay. So uh we're gonna go through some of those. Um, when somebody is going to court, you how should they be dressed?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And to start off with, this is just general education provided by the court. This is not how I would rule on anything. I'm not talking about specific cases, but how you should dress is uh appropriate for court. So I used to say wear what you would wear to church when I was a lawyer practicing. And then I saw what some people showed up in. And so we have to get a little bit more specific. Most of your courts will have it posted either on a website or on their door. So be sure to check that. But most of them, you're not gonna be allowed to wear shorts in. We don't want to see spaghetti straps. You need to be respectful to the institution that you're in. And so think about that when you're coming. I would highly suggest, depending on your charge, that you not wear anything um with illegal substances being advertised on it. If you're there for a DWI, you probably don't want to walk in in a coors light shirt, things like that. But I mean, that's on you. But I mean, generally speaking, you need to respect the institution that you're there for.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I I've had the the guys who, you know, are in court on the marijuana charge show up with the marijuana medallion or what have you. I'm like, can you please take that back to your we've also had a rash?

SPEAKER_04:

So you were saying in most crazy, let's just be clear. Don't ever wear shorts to court, ever. I don't, you know, we have a we've had a rash of clients lately showing up to court in shorts, and they they look at me like, well, nobody's ever told me I can't wear shorts. Let me be clear. Don't wear shorts to court ever.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, and I do want to tell you, you don't need to go buy new clothes. So you just need to dress respectable. So most people, there we do have some people who come in who are homeless and they're there. We understand that. But most people own a pair of jeans or pants that they can wear.

SPEAKER_03:

I I had a situation recently with uh a client who was uh being sentenced for you know a serious offense and he was about to go off to TDC and his wife could not be present for the sentencing because she was wearing shorts. And so uh I asked the judge, can we take a break just so uh she could run home and change? But she may have missed out on that last moment with her husband because she was dressed inappropriately for court.

SPEAKER_04:

And and we will get you like so. We have some uh some clothes banks at our firm for where prisoners who don't have clothes of their own that have to be dressed for trial. So if you're if your issue is I can't afford a pair of pants, we'll take care of that. Say that to somebody. I mean, we'll just show up in shorts.

SPEAKER_01:

And remember, if you're a court, if you have a court-appointed attorney, be sure to let them know too, because I've seen court-apporting attorneys request the court to purchase them appropriate clothing for a jury trial.

SPEAKER_04:

So we'll take care of you. We're not gonna just l leave you just because you're poor, make you look like you're an idiot.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and so that brings me to my second topic. Um, what time does your court start?

SPEAKER_01:

Mine typically starts at 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_03:

So what time do you want the people in your court there? Before 9 a.m. Okay, you want to talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so we're gonna call the docket. Some judges take longer than other judges to call the docket. I try to call it as quickly as possible. So usually by 9:15, it's called. So if you come in after that, there could be a warrant issued for your arrest because we think you're not coming.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so that the calling the docket is just where they're figuring out who showed up for court and who didn't. And so if you walk in, and I've had this situation pop up where my client shows up late for court, they don't check in and they're not marked as being present. And if I don't catch that and then they leave for the day, they're they're getting a warrant. So it's a dangerous situation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And remember, before that warrant's issued, a bailiff has called your name three times out there loudly. So if somebody calls your name, you need to go ask why, because that may just be that you haven't checked in. And so that's something to keep in mind when you come to court. Also, if you're running late, like we're human, we understand it. If you get in a wreck, flat tire, you end up in a hospital, make sure your attorney knows so they can let the court know.

SPEAKER_03:

So well, and that that raises an interesting point because uh a question that I frequently get from people who are maybe attending court for the first time is well, is the judge gonna ask me questions? Am I gonna have to talk to the judge? What do I say to the judge? And I I explained to them very rarely does a defendant have to talk to the judge, especially if it's a just a first court appearance.

SPEAKER_01:

So on the first court appearance, typically the only thing the judge needs to know is if you're represented by counsel, if you would like to apply for counsel, or if you're gonna hire counsel. Outside of that, there's not a whole bunch the judge is gonna talk to you about. Because remember, we don't know anything about your case. We're not supposed to know because we're supposed to be neutral, right? So we don't know what happened. We haven't seen the police report. The only thing that's in the court's file is the charging instrument. So either the information or the indictment. And we don't want you to tell us what happened in the case either. So that way we can stay neutral and detached. And so um, one of the things to keep in mind in the courtroom is they call it the bar, but they'll actually usually be a row or it's like a um short rail that only the attorneys are supposed to go in front of unless you're called up. So if you walk straight up there, you're probably gonna get the bailiff's attention because you can't just walk up to the judge and start talking to them. And so the judge, if they need to talk to you, will call you up. But typically it's just to make sure that um do you have an attorney? Do you need a reset kind of scheduling stuff?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and that that raises a good point because I've had plenty of clients in the past ask me, well, does the judge know that this other person involved in the case is a bad person and this wasn't entirely my fault?

SPEAKER_01:

No, and we're not supposed to, because trials are supposed to be on evidence that is introduced in court and admitted. And so we're not supposed to know all the stuff that's going on in your case unless we're hearing it. And if the jury's deciding it, we're gonna hear it the same time the jury does, right? But you don't want the judge to know everything because we don't do trials in secret. If the victim calls our office, we don't talk to him. If you call our office, we're not gonna talk to you because we want it all heard in open court, so it's fair.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and that raises a point uh because I don't know if you've ever had this happen, Scott. I have where my client writes a letter directly to the judge, and then I get an email from the court or whatever. Hey, you need to know that I receive this. And it's like, dear judge so-and-so. Yeah, I want you to know. Well, I don't know if you get that. It's never helpful, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Every once in a while, typically the coordinator will ask, Do you want to see this? And I say, You can follow it in the clerk's file and send it to all counsel.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Okay, yeah. So that that's not something that helps a case.

SPEAKER_04:

And yeah, the judge doesn't read it, but the prosecutor gets it. Right. And so now the prosecutor gets to know more facts about the case. Well, so how many when you in your weekly docket about how many defendants are there?

SPEAKER_01:

It just depends. I mean, yesterday's was 15, 16 pages. So I mean, there were over 100. There was not enough room for everybody to sit in the courtroom that was there. So they're pretty large when we have criminal dockets.

SPEAKER_04:

One of the things that we get from our clients is is uh, so why do I have to go to court? They're just going to reset it anyway. So, so why is it that they keep getting reset like that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it could be for a variety of reasons. One is um the state and the defense need to confer. Things may change, they need to look at things, they're plea bargaining, they're negotiating. But until your case is resolved, you're expected to come to court. And typically it's one of your bond conditions that you come to court. So your bondsman may be in there looking for you too. But you also have a right to be present at most hearings. So let's say your attorney needs something decided on the case. It could be a discovery issue. You need to be there so you know what's going on. So I would think you would want to be there if your attorney's talking to them. So that way you know what's going on on your case.

SPEAKER_03:

And you talked about, you know, sometimes the attorney is there talking to the state. Maybe they're discussing a plea bargain offer. Um, when do you find out about any plea bargain or plea bargain offers?

SPEAKER_01:

So the court's not gonna know about any plea bargain offers unless you're accepting it. So, other than that, we are not to have any knowledge of what the plea bargain is. And I will tell you what I do on a jury trial if there's been a prior plea and somebody wants to put it on the record and they're gonna be sentenced in front of me as I step out of the courtroom. So I have no knowledge of any plea negotiations unless it's an agreed plea bargain that's coming before me. And that's part of the judge wanting to remain neutral.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, I've had clients ask me, you know, well, what does the judge think of this plea bargain offer? And I have to tell them that the judge doesn't know what we're doing, and the judge won't know until we get in front of her uh on this this plea bargain matter. Um, so I do know that sometimes when I'm in court, I see um the people in court, maybe it's a loved one, a family member trying to talk to maybe the clerk or trying to even approach the judge to ask for legal advice. I mean, what what is your take on that?

SPEAKER_01:

So that happens a lot. They actually will call the court, they'll try to wave us down while we're sitting on the bench, they'll walk up there. Remember, the judge and courtroom staff are not permitted to give legal advice. So we are not allowed to. That's part of being neutral. That's what attorneys are for. We cannot give legal advice. I actually, um, and most courts do, if there's a pro se defendant, make sure that we admonish them that the court will not give you legal advice, the state's attorney will not give you legal advice, but that if you need summit later on, come back and let us know so we can get you an attorney. But um, my coordinators frequently called and asked things, and the only response she can give is you need to contact a lawyer. Absolutely. And the clerks have the same, I can tell you the clerks also cannot give legal advice. They're not lawyers. So they it's not that people don't want to be helpful, it's not that we're trying to be rude at all. We just have to follow the law, and the law says we can't give you legal advice.

SPEAKER_03:

Absolutely. Well, you're the neutral, detached third party. Uh, if you give somebody legal advice and they're like, well, I followed what you said, but you still ruled this way. I mean, that that's an absolute no-no. And that that's the function of the attorneys. That's what we should be doing in court. So this may be a little specific, and you may have uh your opinion on this or preference, or or maybe you do not. Um, how do you like to be addressed? So if somebody's in front of you, you get somebody who's going to court for the first time and they're speaking to you. Is it is it yes, your honor, yes, ma'am, uh judge. How how should people address the court? And and and I don't want you to speak just personally for yourself, just in general, courts in general.

SPEAKER_01:

Most courts expect you to say your honor or yes, ma'am, or yes, sir. I am in a rural community where I know lots of people and just act that you ask that you be respectful because some of them may know me from somewhere else, but um, there's times where they'll say yes, ma'am, instead of your honor. But the safest thing to always say is your honor, because there will be times that people will be offended if you don't. And so, and I mean they've earned that title, call them that, and they will call you Mr. So and so to be respectful back.

SPEAKER_04:

So, but saying yes, judge is okay too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, there are some people, and I understand that, and that's fine. It still shows respect, you're still recognizing the position.

SPEAKER_03:

You're acknowledging the position, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, that brings up uh an interesting point because I I've spent a good part of my life practicing in these smaller communities, and people will come into my office and they're accused of a crime, and they say, Well, my dad went to school with the judge, or and I've had to explain that does not make a difference. And most of the time, I'm negotiating the case with a prosecutor who you know has no idea who you are, even if the judge knows who you are, that's not really a factor that's gonna play into the disposition of your case.

SPEAKER_01:

No, we're supposed to be neutral, and so we are, and if a judge feels like they can't be neutral because of a relationship, then they would voluntarily recuse themselves. And so um that may not be something you want to go in there and argue, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

Very much not so.

SPEAKER_01:

So, but generally, all the judges I know were very neutral. That doesn't play into it, and the biggest thing we want is just to treat everybody fairly that's in there.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right. When when somebody goes to court, uh, a lot of times they ask, can I take my mom or dad with me? Can my wife go with me? What what's your your policy on that or your view on that?

SPEAKER_01:

Generally speaking, as long as there's enough seating room and they're well behaved, okay, most people can come in the courtroom. Um, make sure it's not somebody that your bond conditions say you should have no contact with. Oh, that's a good point. That comes up sometimes.

SPEAKER_03:

So, like in a family violence case, if you're not allowed emergency protective order and you're there with the person you're protected against.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, that's your decision, but I'm gonna get arrested. That would probably not be recommended. Um, but generally speaking, it is an open and public courtroom. And so the public is allowed to come. And I actually tell our juries that I say this is the public courtroom, you can come down here and watch what's going on anytime.

SPEAKER_04:

But I do have to say for Bear County, in the initial docket call because it's so crowded, they don't let family members come in. And they'll say, like after the docket's called at 10:30, when we get rid of some of the defendants, then the family can come in.

SPEAKER_01:

And I've seen courts do that, and it's just because there's not enough room in the room. But they're not keeping you out, they're not trying to not make it public. They just want to be sure these people answer the docket. And usually after you answer the docket, you can step out. Yeah. So it's mainly to make sure everybody checks in who's supposed to check in.

SPEAKER_03:

And that leads me to another point. Uh, you know, you're talking about people being there to answer the docket. When are people free to leave?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, um, when their case is done for the day. And so in our court, which is different than others, is I tell them you will have a piece of paper in your hand, either a reset with the day and time to come back, you will have if your case is resolved, you will have a dismissal or a judgment in your hand, but you should leave knowing what happened on your case. If you are in court and you don't know what's happened and you're not sure if you can leave, you need to check with somebody to be sure. Right. Because you don't want a warrant to be issued. So if your attorney's still there, you probably don't want to leave unless he's told you you're excused. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And so we have more uh things that a judge wants you to know with Tina Hartman uh coming back after the break.

SPEAKER_02:

The attorneys of Brit Criminal Defense have helped over 5,000 clients move on with their lives. When an arrest or accusation turns your life upside down, we have the knowledge, experience, and integrity to get your life back on track. Traditional legal ethics, modern legal tactics, the best defense possible to get you through the criminal justice system. Search Brit Criminal Defense to see our reviews and find out why so many of our clients have trusted us to fight for death.

SPEAKER_03:

So earlier you were talking about, you know, a circumstance where maybe somebody has court set that day and they get the flat tire or you know they're stuck in traffic. What should someone in that situation do?

SPEAKER_01:

First, contact your lawyer. So contact your attorney's office and see if they give you some directions. That's always the first thing we want. If you can't get a hold of your lawyer, you could always call the clerk for the court or the coordinator. But remember, if there's court, they're probably in court working and not there to answer the phone. You may want to email them. I would email your attorney, but let somebody know, don't just assume that it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and so what happens if they just say, well, you know, there's traffic, I'm gonna turn around and go home, I'll go back tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, first of all, there's probably gonna be a warrant for you by tomorrow entered for failing to appear for court. But second of all, remember that the court scheduled that time for your case, they probably have another case set the next day. Or depending on which jurisdiction you're in, so whether you're in an urban or rural, they may not be in that courtroom the next day. And so it may be a different judge there. It could be different types of cases. So I sometimes hear criminal cases with civil cases, but sometimes the next day is only a contested civil case.

SPEAKER_03:

You may have a juvenile. We talked last week about the juvenile courts, you may be hearing juvenile matters that day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, but don't assume that you can walk in, that the judge is going to hear your case, or that your attorney's gonna be there. Because remember, the judge can't talk to you about your case. So they're gonna need to get your attorney there. And your attorney, much like your doctor, probably has other appointments. So that's something where just showing up down there, while you may mean well, like, oh, I'm here to resolve my case, you needed to do that yesterday.

SPEAKER_03:

And so, you know, what one of the things that I've had happen in court is um where I have a client in custody, and um, depending on the court, people in custody may be there in the court. They may be in the jury box, you know, waiting for their case to be resolved. And their loved ones are there in court and they have a little note and they say, Here, can you hand this to you know my loved one who's in custody? Have you ever had that happen?

SPEAKER_04:

Of course, you're not allowed to give people stuff. I've had family members say, Can I take money to the to the their loved one in the jail? I'm like, no. Well, can you can you call us from the jail with with when you're talking to them? No, we can't do any of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

It actually puts you in a bad spot because then the attorney can be sanctioned and people get put in trouble. Um, but more importantly, remember they're still in custody. So just because they're in the courtroom doesn't mean that they're outside of custody. So the same rules that would apply over at the jail are going to apply there. And if it becomes a distraction, that's a time where you could get removed from the courtroom, or they could take them back to the jail to confer with their attorney over there if there's some concerns about safety. And the bailiff's gonna make that decision sometimes before the judge does. Right.

SPEAKER_04:

So a lot of times the the judges always defer to the deputies in the courtroom about courtroom safety and what that deputy is gonna allow in the courtroom.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's their primary function when they're in there is courtroom security. And so we're holding court, we're doing court business, we're not gonna be watching everything else. That's their job, and so they're typically gonna catch it first. Right.

SPEAKER_04:

Because I've I've had moms who like, can I hug my son? He's going off to prison, and and they've asked the judge, and the judge says, You got to take that up with the deputy.

SPEAKER_03:

It's up to the yeah, because they're in the custody of the sheriff's department. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And and as a judge, you don't want to be responsible for making that decision. You may not know what's gone over over the jail before they came here, who this mom is, whether they have a criminal history or not, if there's been any threats called in, sometimes you'll be aware of that, sometimes you won't. And so their job is to secure secure the courtroom. And so we really do defer to them to do that.

SPEAKER_04:

We've had deputies allow us and we've had deputies say no. And part of it's what else is going on in that courtroom that day.

SPEAKER_03:

And I always try to explain to the clients and their family that, you know, we can ask, and if they allow it, it's a courtesy. Yeah, the general policy is no.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So it's not something they should expect or if they're denied, they should get angry about.

SPEAKER_04:

We've had good luck doing it because we're always we're not those defense attorneys who come in and act like we're we're jerks all the time. We're we're kind to everybody. So people have extended us kindness back, but but generally it's not allowed.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, don't expect to get a visit with somebody in custody at court. It's not visitation. So don't expect to be able to see them, have contact with them, anything like that. And then there's a lot of courts that only bring them out if there's something that needs to be done on the record. Other than that, they may be in a secure holding area in the back, and so you're not gonna see them. And that doesn't mean that their case wasn't worked on that day.

SPEAKER_04:

So right. Well, because the other thing we've had like uh loved ones trying to communicate with their loved one in the box, and then the deputies say that's it, he's going back to jail.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right, right. And again, that goes back to the safety issue. Yeah. Earlier you were talking about, you know, if somebody is on their way to court, maybe they're running late and they're trying to reach their attorney and they can't. I I know there's also circumstances where somebody shows up for court and their attorney is not present. What should they be doing in that circumstance?

SPEAKER_01:

So, first check in with the court and let them know you're there. So answer the docket when your name's called or check in with the bailiff if you're late. So that way you're sure that they're counted there. The second thing you can do is sometimes we'll have them call their attorney's office to ask if they're gonna come or not. We'll recommend that. And a lot of times the attorneys have already let us know. So, what I tell people is most attorneys don't only go to one court a day. So they go to multiple courts a day. That's very normal. We are not just there for an hour. We're there throughout the day as the judge, and court typically lasts more than an hour. So a lot of attorneys will tell us, especially in rural areas, we're gonna go to this county first and then we'll be there. So typically we'll make an announcement. You can ask the clerk or coordinator, hey, has he called in? Do you know when he's gonna be here? That does not excuse you to leave until then, unless the judge tells you that. So you still have to sit there, but it'll give you kind of an idea on how long it'll be. But do not leave the courtroom until the court has excused you, even if your attorney's not there.

SPEAKER_03:

And and so, you know, with regard to uh somebody who's in court and they leave without their attorney excusing them or without the judge excusing them, earlier you mentioned the possibility of a warrant. What why is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Because they're not done for the day. So they haven't appeared. So if I called a case and you're not there, then you failed to appear. And so at the end of the day, I'm gonna go down my docket and see what's still pending. And if that's still pending and you're not there to answer for it, then you failed to appear for your hearing that day.

SPEAKER_03:

Let me ask you this. Uh, one of the questions that I get quite frequently um from defendants is well, is there something you can do to make the judge dismiss the case before trial? And so can you kind of speak to that?

SPEAKER_01:

Generally, it's a ministerial task for a judge to sign a dismissal.

SPEAKER_03:

What does that mean? Ministerial task.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, it's not like a legal decision we're making. It's uh very basic. We don't file the motion to dismiss. The state files the motion to dismiss because the state filed the case.

SPEAKER_03:

You've never said state, this case is so terrible. I'm ordering you to dismiss it right now. Um, because you know, Scott Simpson showed up and he's a great lawyer.

SPEAKER_01:

No, we don't do that because remember, we're neutral. We don't know the facts of the case, and it's not the court's case. It is the state's case, they're proceeding on it. We can set it for trial. We could hear motions on it and maybe grant an adverse ruling. But short of that, only the state files the motion to dismiss. So, not the court. Um, calling the court and asking for that will not get it done. Asking the judge to do that in court will not get it done. So, really talk to your attorney who can work on that.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if I'm the only one who gets that. I don't know if you've ever had that.

SPEAKER_04:

If only, if only I could talk to the judge, I'm sure she would dismiss the case. Absolutely. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01:

That would that would be a trial.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right. Or or the the the mom, if you know, have you told the judge what a good boy Mijo is? And can I tell the judge? And then maybe they'll let this thing will go away. Yeah, that very rarely works.

SPEAKER_01:

And I understand family members wanting to come in and tell you good things, but remember too that unless you are in juvenile court, if you're in adult court, they're an adult and they need to they need to talk to their attorney, they need to check in, they need to be there, and they're gonna be the ones to testify. You may be called as a witness at a sentencing hearing, and then that would be the appropriate time, but we're not gonna talk to you just like we're not gonna talk to the victims, mom. We're gonna tell everybody we have to stay neutral.

SPEAKER_03:

And so, you know, that that raises a good issue because uh you are in a community, a smaller community of Wilson County. Okay, I know you you grew up there, we went to high school together, we didn't hang out with each other because he wasn't the cool group, not she was she was a cool kid and I was in the debate team.

SPEAKER_01:

Um just had different interests.

SPEAKER_03:

There you go. And so uh, but in those smaller communities, I know I experienced this. Um, I'd go to the grocery store and I'd see clients, I'd see their families. I'm sure that happens to you. Um, you know, do you ever have situations where a family member approaches you and tries to talk to you about a case?

SPEAKER_01:

Most people will respect you when you're out in public, but definitely around the courthouse, you'll get stopped. And when they start talking to me, I tell them, please don't tell me about your case, I can't talk to you about it. Like, don't get into the facts. Please don't get into the facts. And so we'll politely stop you and say, please don't tell me about that. And remember, if you tell the judge too much, then they're going to recuse themselves because they're not neutral anymore because they now know your side. So always tell people like, please stop, don't get into the facts of your case. I can't discuss that with you. And you have a right to have your lawyer present. If you're represented by a lawyer, you should really have them here and the state here. And so I tell them, like, we'll see you in court. You can talk to your attorney then.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Well, because we don't want when you have a fair judge like like Judge Hartman, we don't want her to have to recuse herself because you went and blabbed about the case, and then we have to deal with somebody who might not be as fair.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right. You bring in a hanging judge, somebody who's somebody who's gonna you know get a rope. Yeah, there you go. Absolutely. Um earlier you had talked about, you know, when somebody goes to court and maybe their attorney is not there. You had mentioned, um, well, we're not just there for an hour or two. One of the things that I always encounter are, you know, clients who assume that court is very short. Yeah. And it it's it's only it's only going on in the morning. I always tell them, plan on being there all day, but I don't know if you have a different view on that.

SPEAKER_01:

So we do tell them to be there all day. The arraignment notices actually tell them to plan to be there on all day, which your arraignment is your first setting on a criminal case. And so when that notice goes out, it tells you plan to spend the whole day there. Remember, you're not the only case set. There's multiple cases that are set on the court's stock at that day. There could be a special setting later, but you would know that. It'd be like, hey, we're having a hearing on just this motion. It starts at two, and then you really want to be there at two, because if you're not, that motion may not go forward. But generally speaking, there's gonna be at least a hundred other people who need to be heard that day, and we're gonna go through them one at a time and give everybody the time that they deserve. And so um, don't plan to rush that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And and so it, you know, we're we're getting close on time here. So I I did want to talk to you uh, you know, and ask you a question. So you've been um, I know you were a prosecutor for a long time. You you worked with Scott, you were a prosecutor in the 81st, you and I had cases against each other. Um, you've worked for uh the state, TDCJ, you've worked as a civil attorney, you you've done that. Um you you have a lot of courtroom experience. Um is there any now you're sitting as a judge, is there any pet peeve maybe that you have or that you think most judges would have about the way the attendees in court, whether it's the you know, defendants or their family, handle themselves in court? Is there some pet peeve you have?

SPEAKER_01:

I will tell you my biggest pet peeve is when people are rude, whether it's rude to each other, rude to the court, rude to their attorneys, rude to a bailiff, whether bailiff's rude to anybody, um, everybody who is sitting in court on that case is presumed innocent and they're going to be treated with respect while they're in there. The court expects you to treat the court with the same respect, the other parties that are there, if they're there, any witnesses, any attorneys. And so I would just tell you, I don't think that's just relevant to court. I think if you want to be respected, you will treat people with that. But there's very little tolerance for people being rude in courtrooms right now. We just need to behave better.

SPEAKER_03:

And and on that same note, is there any pet peeve about attorneys that you and you don't have to call out Scott by name. Yes, but is there any pet peeve that you might have about bald attorneys? That would be horrible. Um, so it but is there any pet peeve? Just attorneys, hey attorneys, when you're in court, can you please either stop doing this or start doing this or whatever the case may be?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, first they should not be rude. If you're rude on the record, you're gonna get cut off real quick. Right. Um, the other thing too is talk to your clients because if you're back there for an hour and a half, they're getting real frustrated. People want to know what's going on. And so I don't like to waste people's time. Like you said, how long do you have to sit there? If you have 10 clients and you've got resets done on eight, those eight people should be gone. You should not have them waiting while you finish all 10 cases. So, but that goes back to not being rude because I think that's rude to you know, have people sitting there when they're done for the day. So most attorneys in our court are very courteous. Um, we have not really had issues with people not being courteous. Most of them follow the law, and most people are all there to represent their client, whether it's the state or the defendants, to the best of their ability. And that's all we ask.

SPEAKER_03:

And and you weren't talking specifically about Scott, right? No. Just to be fair.

unknown:

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, so that's all we have time for today. We want to thank Judge Tina Hartman for giving us her time and thank you so much uh participating in this podcast. This is so you got arrested. With Scott Simpson, Steve Barrera from BRIC Criminal Defense.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for listening to So You Got Arrested. If you found this podcast helpful, share it with someone who needs to hear it. For more legal insights and real talk from the front lines of the Texas justice system, follow us and subscribe. And remember, BRIC Criminal Defense has your back. For more information, visit us at brckdefense.com.