So You Got Arrested

Veteran Prosecutor Scott Simpson on Who Gets a Break… and Who Gets Buried

• BRCK Criminal Defense Attorneys

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Welcome back to So You Got Arrested, the podcast that helps you understand the complex world of the criminal justice system. In this episode, we're joined by veteran prosecutor Scott Simpson, who pulls back the curtain on the courtroom's inner workings. He shares his incredible insights on the factors that influence a case's outcome—from plea bargains to sentencing. Scott reveals who gets a second chance and who faces the harshest penalties, shedding light on the disparities and difficult decisions made every day. Scott's decades of experience provide a unique perspective you won't hear anywhere else. Watch this episode to learn: Why some people get a "break" while others don't. How prosecutors decide who to charge and what plea deals to offer. The behind-the-scenes factors that influence a judge's sentencing. How race, socioeconomic status, and jurisdiction can impact a case. Don't miss this eye-opening conversation that will change how you view the justice system. 

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Speaker 1:

The Texas justice system is messy, so let's break it down. You're listening to so you Got Arrested the podcast that tells you what really happens after an arrest, Hosted by BRIC criminal defense attorneys. We talk to the people who've lived it, worked in it and been shaped by it, Whether you're facing charges or just want to understand your rights, your options and the smart moves that could change everything, We've got your back.

Speaker 2:

Hi, welcome to. So you Got Arrested. This is a podcast that discusses what happens from cuffs to courts as you go through the criminal justice system. I want to remind you that if you have questions or topics that you want discussed, you can email us at justarrestedpodcast at gmailcom. That's justarrestedpodcast at gmailcom. That's justarrestedpodcast at gmailcom. Now, scott, I know you're a defense attorney, but in a former life you used to do something else.

Speaker 3:

I was a prosecutor for 21 years, In and out. I was a prosecutor for 15 years, then went into private practice. Then, when Nico LaHood became the DA, I came back to the DA's office. Then when he lost the election, I retired. And then I also was asked to come out and help out and prosecute out in Medina County with my good friend Mark Habe, who I went to law school with.

Speaker 2:

And I'll say, scott, before you came to work with us, you and I had met a few times, but I was aware of your reputation because you've prosecuted some very high profile cases, quite a few murders. At one time you'd given me the number of murders you had prosecuted.

Speaker 3:

It was Well, I prosecuted hundreds, but I've probably tried like maybe 30 to 50 murders. I don't really keep track of them, but I've tried probably a couple hundred felonies. And then as a defense attorney, I've tried federal cases. Yeah, I've tried a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2:

That's what I wanted to discuss today. I want to discuss when, what the prosecutor is looking at when they get a case. Ok, and so let's take a scenario. Somebody is accused of a crime let's say it's possession of cocaine, right. So they get arrested, they post bail, they're out on bail and the report. How does all that get to the DA's office?

Speaker 3:

So the initial magistrate report like the offense reports that the officer writes when they arrest you that's in there off the bat. That's uploaded into the system. We can see it right away. What's supposed to happen, though, is that a follow-up detective on all felonies is supposed to gather up the rest of the evidence, which, in a drug case, is just going to be. You're waiting for the lab report, right, okay, and so, if you're in custody, you're entitled to be indicted within 90 days from the time that you were arrested, and we're not going to have that lab report back within 90 days, so you're probably going to get out on what we call a PR bond, which is just a small 3% bond that you don't have to go through a bondsman to make, but so, on those drug cases, there's not a lot for the detective to do besides submit the drugs. They're the ones that submit the drugs off to the crime lab, and then they file the case with us, and then we get the results back at the DA's office.

Speaker 2:

And so because it's a felony and we've kind of discussed this before, but for a felony to make its way into court as an officially filed case, it has to go to the grand- jury Right.

Speaker 3:

So in Bexar County we have two different grand juries running at all times. There's a grand jury that meets Monday and Tuesday and there's a grand jury that meets Wednesday and Thursday.

Speaker 3:

And what's a grand jury, if you could just describe it. So the grand jury is the same thing as a regular jury, but they're coming, instead of being called down for your jury duty to hear a trial, you're called down for grand jury. You don't necessarily know you're being called down for grand jury, but so they call less people, so they may only call like 50 people and say 30 people show up. It's very different from picking a jury where attorneys talk to you the 30 people who show up for grand jury duty, the judge sits there and says who wants to volunteer? It's for two months. So for two months you're committing to come into the grand jury room every Monday and Tuesday, but we usually have you out of there by noon.

Speaker 2:

Are you finding people guilty or what are you doing in grand jury?

Speaker 3:

So if I'm presenting cases to the grand jury. I may come in say I'm doing drug case. I may present 10 cases to the grand jury all at once and then I leave the room when they vote and nine out of the 12 have to vote that there's probable cause to proceed with the case. In other words, there's enough that we think this case should be filed in court and if you can't get nine out of the 12 people to vote for a true bill, then the case is no bill and the case is dismissed and the case is over at that point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Now if the grand jury takes a look at your case and says, hey, there's not enough here to go forward, Is it possible for a prosecutor like yourself to bring that case to the grand jury again?

Speaker 3:

It is. So sometimes a grand jury no-bills a case that shouldn't be no-billed, there's nothing preventing us from taking it to another grand jury. I'll give you an example. A long time ago this is back when two famous prosecutors presented this murder case to the grand jury, where a guy had threatened a doctor's daughter, said you're not gonna be able to watch her all the time and we'll get her eventually. And so the doctor went out and shot him in the head. Oh wow, ok, and that's not self-defense, right. But the grand jury didn't like they. All. The grand jurors said I'd probably do that too. So we presented to one grand jury they know about it. There was a lot of outrage from the family of the deceased. And then they presented to a second grand jury and they also know about it, and that at that point we're like we're not pursuing this case.

Speaker 2:

Right, because that kind of gives you an indication as to, hey, this is what a regular jury as to hey, this is what a regular jury.

Speaker 3:

If I can't get probable cause from nine out of 12 people without a defense attorney arguing the other side, I'm never going to get 12 people to agree guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Speaker 2:

So when these cases come in to the prosecutor's office and officers are turning in their reports, are there cases that you can look at and say no, this doesn't pass the muster.

Speaker 3:

So I probably shouldn't say this. So when I was a prosecutor before, most of the time I was a prosecutor I was in family violence unit handling child victim cases, family violence cases. But I also was in regular criminal trial division and a lot of those drug cases that were under 0.2 grams I was rejecting those.

Speaker 2:

OK, cases that were under 0.2 grams, I was rejecting those Okay. So this is where somebody gets caught and they might have just a minimal amount. I think that the way that I used to talk to clients about it is sometimes it might even be a situation where somebody may have used and tossed the empty bag down, you know, in the car and there there's residue, the residue cases.

Speaker 3:

Because, remember so, a gram is a sweet and low packet. So now imagine 0.2 of a sweet and low packet, right, okay? So now that's one of those things I was just doing. If I told my supervisors they'd probably say stop doing that. Now, mind you, I'm not saying I was rejecting those. If they had flushed a bunch down the toilet and all we had left was 0.2. Right, or they shoved a bunch in their mouth, don't do that, because you can die. It's not worth dying over a drug case where you're going to get probation because you ate all your drugs. Because I had a friend when I was in high school who ate all the drugs and died of a heart attack.

Speaker 2:

Well, and that's a you know, if I mean, if you don't die or nothing bad happens to you, you may pick up another felony Right the tamper with evidence, tampering with evidence.

Speaker 3:

Some of those cases are bullshit, but that's a recent development that they're trying to get you now for tampering for the drugs Right I think a lot. In the old days they used to say it's punishment enough that you ate the drugs and survived.

Speaker 2:

But but anyway. So when you're looking at these cases and they're coming into you, let me ask you does the criminal background of the accused play a role? Yeah, how so.

Speaker 3:

So now I don't look at the criminal background of the accused when I'm first looking at the case. Ok, but why is? That Because I don't want it to taint what I think about the case. If the case sucks, it doesn't become better just because you have a bad criminal history.

Speaker 2:

Okay Now it's fair to say, maybe not all prosecutors do that.

Speaker 3:

That may be true. I eventually have to look at the criminal history because if I decide, oh, this is a good case, I'm going to indict it. Now I have to see if they're what we're called. If you've been to prison before, you're now a repeater, so it elevates your crime one level. And if you've been to prison twice before, you're now habitual, which means your range of punishment is 25 to 99. So I got to look at that because I have to add that to the indictment.

Speaker 2:

Or because of like a DWI. Thirds, you have to look. The reason I ask that question is I've had cases where you know, let's say, somebody is charged with a misdemeanor, family violence, and maybe the case itself isn't all that great. But I've had situations where prosecutors tell me well, we looked at your guy's criminal history and he's had three prior family violence cases that were all dismissed, but that shows that there's something going on. What I mean? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3:

I, I feel a lot of times. I feel the same way. If you've been, if you've been beating three different women, you've gotten away with the three different times, you may have to buy a trial on this fourth one. So so, in that circumstance it not probable cause, we can't do that. But but if it's a black eye and the woman is calling us constantly saying I want these cases dismissed, I'm not going to dismiss that case.

Speaker 2:

OK, ok. And so that's a circumstance where criminal history, even though you know from the outside, looking in, you may have a defendant or his family saying, hey, wait a minute, all those cases were dismissed, they may still come into play, right.

Speaker 3:

And so it particularly happens in family violence cases and it's particular. So it makes a difference if you have prior family violence cases dismissed involving different people, because then it's not just the problems these two people, the problems this guy OK, OK, All right and so, but remember, I'm still looking at it and and the initial. So I have a 911 call that's saying he's beating me up and I have a photograph of a black eye, and so the fact that somebody is now saying she doesn't want to pursue the case, I'm never going to dismiss the case because I have a good case that I can prove without her Right.

Speaker 2:

And and that's a question that comes up a lot People want to know well, look, if the person on the other side of the case, you know, in a family violence case maybe it's a spouse, or you know a significant other, but you know, sometimes maybe it's a theft case, or and they're saying, hey look, the person on the other side of the case does not want this case to go forward.

Speaker 3:

Does that mean that a prosecutor has to get rid of that case? No, it doesn't. So what I like to say when people are calling us up saying they don't want to pursue charges, it's not going to be the prevailing factor in what we do with the case. It's going to be a factor, sure Okay. So in the end I'm still going to look at the evidence. So if I have good evidence on the case and a reluctant victim, then I'm still going to probably go forward in the case. But then sometimes I have adamant victims and the case stinks and I'm going to still dismiss the case.

Speaker 3:

Because the flip side is true too. You have some victims who want us to pursue on something and you realize this is somebody out with a vendetta. This case is no good, I'm going to reject it. This case is no good, I'm going to reject it. And that's where sometimes weaker DA's offices don't have the intestinal fortitude to tell a victim complaining that no, we're not going to go forward on this case because they'd rather file it and lose in a trial than have the fallout of the person calling and complaining about them.

Speaker 2:

And that was my other question is if you have a victim on the other side let's say it's an estranged family member who, once you buried under the prison, is the DA's office obligated to seek their approval for everything?

Speaker 3:

Okay, not their approval, but they're obligated to let them know what they're doing, sure, okay.

Speaker 3:

So one of the things I always used to tell all my advocates and my younger prosecutors don't call up, say you got an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, okay. But so if you call the victim up and say what do you want to see happen on the case, they're going to say we want the max. That's not how you do it. You call them up and say I've been doing this for 10 years, this is what I'm going to offer on the case. I wanted to let you know, okay, okay, and then that's how you control that kind of thing, right, and it's not to say that we don't care what the victim thinks, but I still, everything that we do as prosecutors should be based on what we think is going to happen in a jury trial. Sure, okay, and I've tried enough of them that I kind of have a good sense. Now that still doesn't mean that I couldn't try a case three different times in front of three different juries and get three different results.

Speaker 3:

But I do have the experience that I kind of know how a jury is going to look at this and I'm supposed to utilize that experience to decide what is a fair resolution for this case.

Speaker 2:

Well, and you hit on that, a fair resolution to this case, because a prosecutor's obligation in court is different from a defense attorney's obligation in court right Completely different. What is defense attorney's obligation in court right? Completely different. What is the?

Speaker 3:

prosecutor's obligation. So prosecutor's obligation is written out in the Code of Criminal Procedure, section 2.01. Prosecutor's duty is to see that justice is done.

Speaker 2:

And seeing that justice is done. Does that include the defendant?

Speaker 3:

Yes, so justice for everybody Right.

Speaker 2:

So it may be a case that you see that you know, you say, okay, I think this guy did do something, but I don't know if this is worth prison, or I don't know if this is worth the max, and then you handle it accordingly.

Speaker 3:

Which that's a great point. So if I have a family violence case and I have a wife who's calling up and saying I want to dismiss the case, I get on the phone with them a lot of times and I say I'm not going to dismiss the case. But what's happening is the defendant and the defendant's lawyer is telling her they're trying to send him in prison. And then you're going to lose the house. And I say I'm offering him three years deferred adjudication, which is a form of probation, form of probation where you don't show as a felony conviction. And then and I'm offering them so is the problem is when he's drinking, right, well, I can make sure he takes alcohol treatment and I can make sure he does a batter's intervention, and I, and then she says, well, he should take that. And then so I've worked out. I said, well, that's, I already offered it to him and they refused.

Speaker 2:

And then next thing I know I get a call from the defense attorney saying we want to come in to take that plea offer that we rejected last month, right, right. And that's where clients may sometimes get frustrated saying, hey, I know my wife has indicated this or my loved one's indicated this, why isn't the case going away, right?

Speaker 3:

And so it's important for everybody to know that, just because your loved one is trying to get the charges dropped, it's evidence-based prosecution. We're going to make the decision based on what the evidence tells us, not based on what the person wants to do with it after the fact.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that, and so that is our first segment here on. So you Got Arrested and we'll be back.

Speaker 4:

The attorneys of Brick Criminal Defense have helped over 5000 clients move on with their lives. When an arrest or accusation turns your life upside down, we have the knowledge, experience and integrity to get your life back on track. Traditional legal ethics, modern legal tactics the best defense possible to get you through the criminal justice system. Search Brick Criminal Defense to see our reviews and find out why so many of our clients have trusted us to fight for them.

Speaker 2:

Brick Criminal Defense helping our clients move on with their lives so Scott, an issue that comes up quite a bit is there's times where and keep in mind I've only ever really done defense work and so there are times where families will come to me and say, well, why won't the prosecutor offer this? Can a defense attorney make a prosecutor offer a specific plea bargain offer?

Speaker 3:

They never can make us do a specific plea offer. But I will say this most prosecutors will entertain a reasonable counteroffer. But here's the thing I've had this happen multiple times. So say, my offer is five years prison for this family violence assault okay, because he's he's had two or three priors and and there's particularly good pictures of injuries. Okay, um, and if you come as defense attorney, come to me and say, would you offer me probation on this case?

Speaker 3:

And I sit there and say, ok, let me go back and look at it. And then I go and I make sure that the victim is OK with it and of course she's been trying to drop the charges anyway. And so I look at the evidence again, I look at his history, and then I call you Steve. Ok, I'll do five years probation instead of five years prison. And then you tell me well, we're not going to take that either. Now I'm pissed off. Don't make a counter unless your client is going to take the counter. The idea behind a counter is you're telling me that if I do this, you'll take it.

Speaker 2:

Right, and I've had that situation before on the defense side where a client asked me well, would they give me five years of probation? I said, well, let me work on that. And then I get back and say, hey, good news, they'll give you the five years probation. And the client says, okay, let me think about it. And then you're stuck.

Speaker 3:

And so I'm very clear with our clients at Brick the ones I handle like. If I'm going to make this counter, if they accept it, you're taking it. You need to understand that.

Speaker 2:

Now let me ask you this you know, when you're sitting in that role as a prosecutor and that defense attorney is coming to you and they're saying, Scott, you're offering five years in prison on this case, you know, I'd like you to consider probation for my client. Are there things that the defendant can do to help in that that cause?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and so I. So I may say to you okay, first of all, are you saying he'll take the probation if I offer it, because I don't want to agonize over it if he's not going to take it? And secondly, is there some things, what we call a mitigation packet, is there some things you can show me that I can put in the file to help justify why I'm giving him probation in a case that maybe, on his face, doesn't deserve probation?

Speaker 2:

And what kind of things would those be?

Speaker 3:

Well, say he's got some mental health issues but now he's getting help Okay. Or say and this is important so the idea of the criminal justice system is we want you to not re-offend. So if you have a good job, a really good job, and pleading to this will make you lose your job, or rather, if you get deferred, you can keep your job. I'm going to seriously weigh that, because my gal is still with him and they have kids together and things aren't going to get better for that relationship if he's now out of work and they get evicted from their house. So as prosecutors we got to worry about all that stuff. Sure, okay, because we care about the people.

Speaker 3:

I try to tell all the DAs and the and the advocates don't tell victims how to live their lives. So don't sit there and say you need to leave this guy. That's not our business. Our business is the law was violated, the police were called and there has to be a justification, there has to be some consequences for their act. What that consequence can be, we can talk about till the cows come home.

Speaker 2:

Well, and you know, a lot of times I'll explain to clients that the prosecutor has no idea who you are other than what's on that offense report and what's in your criminal history. So to the extent that somebody can help me show who they are, you know, whether it's through transcripts from a school, some letters from a job, there's even times where I've submitted photos of the family, you know, just to, hey, this is a loving husband, he's got a family, things like that, just to kind of show the prosecutor that, hey, this guy is more than just a criminal defendant on your report.

Speaker 3:

Right, and I've had a case where it turns out this guy, who's had a run of criminal history, his brother was murdered when he was 17 years old. I have no way of knowing that, okay, but then I can look it up once you tell me, but I have to look it up by the defendant's name, but I can sometimes look it up by the victim, but I wouldn't know that because it's not linked like that. So then I see, oh shit, he was a good kid and he went off the rails when his brother was murdered. Maybe he found the Bible, whatever. And I'm like, okay, well, that changes my opinion of this. He needs help more than he needs prison. Right, right, right.

Speaker 2:

Now going through that plea bargain process again. I know there's times where people get frustrated and say, well, can't you make the state do this or that? There's times where we can help getting the state there and there's times where we can't. But the defense attorney that you have, how important is that during that process?

Speaker 3:

It's very it's important that you have a defense attorney who's everybody knows is credible. A what does that mean? That that you're not just come up and bullshit me, okay, like there's for defense attorneys I had. I don't. I hope I didn't tell this story before. Let's not name names, but Okay, I had a defense attorney when I was in family violence court and it was and and and.

Speaker 3:

There's a defense attorney came up to me and said he never touched this woman. He went over there and they got into argument, but he never laid his hands on her. And this is a bullshit case. And I said it's not an assault case, it's a violation of protective order. And he stopped for a second. He said well, he was never there. And we both started laughing. That's a problem, ok, but it was funny at the time. But you have to be credible. And so if you're a defense attorney and you don't know for sure, I always say my client tells me this and this about the victim, sure, and then that way I don't look like I'm lying to the, to the prosecutor, if they look it up and say that's completely not true.

Speaker 2:

And does the attorney's reputation make a difference?

Speaker 3:

Huge, huge, how so? Because I'm going to listen to you more when you come up to me and I respect that you come and you're always reasonable in what you're doing. If you ask if there's an attorney, he's always asking. Like there's some attorneys defense attorneys out there who think every one of their clients is innocent and they want every case dismissed. Well, they don't have any credibility anymore. Okay, so I don't really care what their opinion is, I care what the file says. But the other part about that is we also we need to as prosecutors. If we know you're a defense attorney, you will never take a case to trial. You ain't going to get as good a deal. Why is that? Because we know that you're eventually going to take what we give you because you're not going to take the case to trial.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so do prosecutors talk among themselves over? Hey, you know, maybe you're sitting in that prosecutor chair. I come up to you, I've never dealt with you, but I've dealt with other prosecutors in your office. Do they ever talk about?

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, we talk about all the defense attorneys all the time, just like the defense attorneys talk about the prosecutors like this prosecutor is unreasonable, I hate being in this court, or there's certain counties where we don't like to practice in. We won't mention any names because the prosecutors can be unreasonable. Both sides talk about each other, and both the defense bar and the prosecution have friends on each side. We go break bread together too.

Speaker 2:

At the same, time Right, and so during this plea bargain negotiation that goes on, the defense attorney can make a difference. Yes, in terms of the plea bargain. Yes, let me ask you this. I get this question from time to time Can I make the prosecutor dismiss a case?

Speaker 3:

No, you can never make it. Prosecutors miss a case.

Speaker 2:

OK, explain that.

Speaker 3:

Well, the only way I'm going to dismiss it is if I feel like it's justified to dismiss it. And so sometimes we get like, say, file a motion to have it dismissed. Well, the judge can't dismiss it. The only person who can dismiss it is the prosecution. And the only way the judge can dismiss it is we go to trial and either the judge finds somebody not guilty or the jury finds somebody not guilty. So that's the way it has to go. So the defense attorney always has to approach the prosecutor hat in hand. We're used to as defense attorneys we're always asking for because a lot of our clients the case is very good for the state. You know he was pulled over because he had a bunch of warrants attached to that driver's license and then he's got a kilo of cocaine in the front seat next to him. There's not a lot to work with on that case. So all we're doing is coming in and begging for a good deal from the process, sure.

Speaker 2:

And you know, possibly with the threat of hey at trial, we're going to make this difficult, even in cases where maybe you know, you know we may not win, but we're going to make it difficult if you take this thing to trial, we're going to, we're going to kick up some dust and, you know, have some good objections and things like that.

Speaker 3:

But you've got to be careful about the making it difficult versus the kind of like a macho contest, like screw you, because if it's a challenge I'm like OK, all right, let's see it up there?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you this With regard to these issues of going to trial, do prosecutors make decisions, maybe based on the defense attorney's reputation about his abilities as a trial attorney? That's a hard one.

Speaker 3:

So we shouldn't, because it should be your concern about what might happen in trial, about what might happen in trial. But when you are voicing in your head, when you're voicing the concern about what may happen in trial, you can't ignore the fact that you know what the defense attorney is going to make hay out of this and this. So, like every good prosecutor looks at a case and thinks, here's how the defense attorney is going to attack it, every good defense attorney looks at the case and says, here's how the prosecutor is going to prove it. Okay, that's what good trial attorneys do on both sides of the aisle. Okay, and so what you know. When you have somebody good on the other side, that cause.

Speaker 3:

I've been surprised when I was a prosecutor, when I'm like, oh, I have this and this weakness in the case and we go to trial and none of those weaknesses are brought out, right, okay, right. I'm like, oh geez, they didn't. I would have, I would have brought that stuff up. But then when you have a good defense attorney on their side, you know that stuff's going to be brought up, right? That's the difference.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, and so what you've just talked about, that can impact the plea bargain negotiations, of course. Okay, yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this regard to the prosecutor handling the case from the time that it's filed through a trial, does the defendant's conduct while the case is pending make a difference?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's the difference between getting a good. So a couple of things If you're in custody and you're committing violations, disciplinaries at the jail, we're going to get that stuff and that's going to be like, ok, well, what I was thinking before, now that's off the table. Also, there's jail calls where somebody is calling up their, their spouse and saying you better get down there and get those charges dropped. You know, do you guys get?

Speaker 2:

those. Yeah, you get copies of those, yeah, so if somebody is on a jail call and they're talking to because I've had this come up where a family member says, hey, what happened? And they give an account of it, yes, now you're essentially making a confession.

Speaker 3:

It's all coming in and it's not only as a confession, but it's a confession that's completely admissible because it's not subject to 3822. 3822 being the section that controls confessions. When police officers talk to you, they have to read your rights on the video, not on jail calls.

Speaker 2:

But if you're talking, to mama.

Speaker 3:

That's not. That's not part of 3822.

Speaker 2:

In other words, that's just you making a spouting off and all that stuff's coming in and I have you know, I've talked to people who get frustrated, who say you know, I'm talking to my loved one at the jail and they won't talk to me about the offense and I tell them what's the first thing we tell them Don't talk about the offense on the jail call.

Speaker 3:

That's the first thing we tell a client.

Speaker 2:

Right, and it's natural, because the family member wants to know, hey, what happened that night? How did it happen, you know? And they get frustrated and say, well, they won't talk to me about it. Yeah, they should not be. What about?

Speaker 3:

letters. Those letters are reviewed before they go out and before they come in. Ok, the only time they're not is if I sent if you sent me an attorney, when you're your attorney a letter and say legal mail, they're not supposed to open that Sure. However, there's been some people in prison who have used that and sent had their friends send them fake legal mail that had drugs in it. So now they kind of open it anyway. Okay, they just make sure it really is legal mail. I've gotten calls from the prison saying did you send so-and-so a letter, did you?

Speaker 2:

send so-and-so cocaine and fentanyl. So so let me ask you know, as a defense attorney, I can honestly say that nothing worries me more than when I'm getting prepared for the trial and then the state hands me a hard drive and it's 100 jail calls. Because now I'm worried. Oh Lord, what did my client say?

Speaker 3:

So we don't always pull all the jail calls, because there might be a lot, but we usually pull them like right after you're arrested, and we usually pulled what like right after you're arrested. And we usually pull what happens right before trial, because right before trial everybody starts talking to their family and friends about the case. So then, yes, we pull those jail calls and we find out, oh geez, he's talking about this. And then we make copies, we present them to the defense and say, hey, that case you thought you were going to kick our ass on, maybe not so much anymore our ass on.

Speaker 2:

Maybe not so much anymore. Now, is there anything that you would say that somebody charged with a crime could do that would make a difference to a prosecutor, Like when you were a prosecutor? Something that you would see and say, hey, I'm on the fence about this, but this guy did this or that.

Speaker 3:

Really think outside the box on those kinds of issues. It's anything you can do well to show you're a productive member of society. So I'm taking classes. I haven't gotten in any more trouble. I haven't had any positive UA, I haven't peed dirty while I've been on pretrial and I've turned my life around since this. Now we all are a little bit suspect. It's like atheists in a foxhole kind of thing. You know there's charges pending, so you're on your best behavior, but when you continue but there's a lot of people who aren't on their best behavior when they have charges pending. So when we're trying on those cases where we're on the fence about what to do and then the person has made some positive gains in their life and you can show that to me as a defense attorney, we're going to, we're going to take that consideration.

Speaker 2:

It's going to help you yeah absolutely, and so we hope that this advice helps those of you navigating your way through the criminal justice system.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening. This is so you Got Arrested, sponsored by Brick Criminal Defense. Thanks for listening to so you Got Arrested. If you found this podcast helpful, share it with someone who needs to hear it. For more legal insights and real talk from the front lines of the Texas justice system, follow us and subscribe, and remember BRIC Criminal Defense has your back. For more information, visit us at brckdefensecom.